Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

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3liminary
Community Member
Posts: 2

Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#1 » Sun 19 Jan, 2020 11:47 am

Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

EUTW has recently permanently (perma) banned the account of 3Hugger on the respective ArmA 3 EUTW servers, being, as according to the eutw.net website named as, Server #1 - eu1.eutw.net:2302 and Server #2 – eu2.eutw.net:2302.

This permanent ban being in place was brought upon the attention of 3Hugger whilst trying to connect to the EUTW servers, as 3Hugger has done many times before over the last few years, without any problem, warning, kick, temporary ban or permanent ban, neither any indication to ever be at the risk of receiving a ban on the servers was suspect, until 3Hugger could no longer proceed to connect to the servers as 3Hugger was used to do and the message informing 3Hugger read: ‘player banned, admin abuse, permanent’.

As 3Hugger also received a ban on Discord and since 3Hugger’s EUTW forum account is inaccessible due to a software bug, of which 3Hugger informed the EUTW admins and which to the knowledge of 3Hugger is still in place and therefor not a viable option to communicate, leaving the personal message (PM) system of Steam to contact two of the EUTW admins. Whom he contacted both, to inform them of the permanent ban and in this message which he clearly states that the server ban does not make any sense to 3Hugger, as paraphrasing in 3Hugger’s words: 3Hugger never got a warning, kick, temporary or permanent ban...this (referring to the ban in place) is not correct. Neither did 3Hugger receive any form of information that an EUTW wide permanent server ban would be put in place or for what reason this would be. After informing EUTW admins about this, expecting some sort of a reaction, 3Hugger never received a single word back from EUTW. This whilst both contacted admins have been logged in and off and were active over a period of several days and whilst many days passed, from EUTW 3Hugger, to emphasize: RECEIVED NOT A SINGLE WORD BACK.

Now indirectly 3Hugger is somewhat known to the EUTW system and 3Hugger is both to many active and inactive EUTW server players alike, known as what one could say, being a good behaved and fair player. The permanent ban for 3Hugger on the EUTW servers then also came to 3Hugger, as figure of speech, as thunder in clear skies. But what about lighting one may say, didn’t the lightning give a hint? Well that is exactly what is so flabbergasting about this permanent ban, there was no lightning either. Not a warning, not a kick, no temporary ban, neither a word of explanation to what was about to happen or put in place: a permanent server ban was evidently put in place and EUTW has been contacted, thus informed about this. Without any reply of EUTW, so one can deduct and conclude, the permanent ban is intentional, or EUTW hasn’t been able to communicate to 3Hugger, because of their recklessness to eliminate their sole means of communication with 3Hugger.

While logic dictates that the server ban must be placed with cause or would be illegitimate, an appeal may be in order, according to the EUTW premise. For an appeal to be made, one may state it to be logic to know what to appeal and how to appeal and to whom to appeal to.

And therefore one would require to know according to what rules and what evidence of what allegedviolation’ or the ‘reasoning’ behind such a permanent verdict is based upon and which sanctions apply for ‘breaking’ or ‘violating’ those rules are set by those rules and whether or not which ‘circumstances’ and how ‘strict’ such rules and the consequences thereof do apply. And to all this, the expected ‘fairness’ or the ‘justice’ if you will that abiding to such a set of parameters would apply or is to be expected.

Then of course where and when to even consider or attempt to perform such an appeal and potential consequences and expected changes of what kind of outcome there is. So to be able to make a fair assessment the following is required, which I hereby move to the motion to receive from EUTW the following as listed:


- All the related EUTW internal ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ and ‘code of conduct’ and related documents;
- Every and all internal documents directly related or mentioning as influencing factors of the potential and definitive sanction(s) and all information leading up to this decision and the direct derivatives of these;
- Every and all discord information from after the discord ban, directly related or mentioning as influencing factors of the potential and definitive sanction(s) and all information leading up to this decision and direct derivatives of these;
- A temporary exception on the discord ban, for at least the sole purpose to retrieve and collect the data that can be produced as evidence;
- A (copy of) all data of 3Hugger that EUTW has logged in any fashion or form, along with the opt-in agreement of 3Hugger agreeing that EUTW is allowed to collect this data, as well as the waiver agreement which clearly states that 3Hugger agreed upon EUTW sharing this data to which third parties;
- A statement of the charges, hence the specific rule or rules which have been so grossly violated that it justifies the actions that led to the permanent ban;
- Proof of due diligence that clearly proofs that the required steps taken to maintain a fair process were met and shows that the process is ethically integer;
- The evidence of which the derived action of putting in place and maintaining a permanent ban on the EUTW servers is based upon and which clearly shows that this evidence is sufficient grounds for the actual continuation of this permanent ban without further adjustment, amendment or action from EUTW;
- The party or parties whom requested the ban;
- The responsible actionable party whom put the ban in place;
- The evidence or acknowledgment that according, to the best knowledge and efforts, to EUTW the party actually performing the task, of both the deliverance of verdict and execution, is competent and sane;
- How to appeal and the applicable rules and guidelines in place;
- The party or parties whom to appeal to;
- The party or parties whom has the final deciding vote of verdict (i.e. ‘judge’);
- The party or parties whom has influence to the verdict (i.e. ‘jury’);
- A comprehensive and exhaustive list of completion with any and all information that hasn’t been requested, but EUTW knows or should know to be part of this process with the statement of why according to EUTW this is or should be considered relevant.

Whilst remaining for the opportunity to expand on this list, as discovery and/or future developments may lead to further required information, pending potential proceedings.

Failure to comply may be seen as evidence of obstruction of fair due process and speaks to the intend of EUTW, which may be taken into account when proceeding. With a strong emphasis on the applicable (inter)national and/or local laws in place outweigh any and all rules of set and/or maintained by EUTW, hence the potential act of interference, the change of path or the altering of information after the fact, does not free one of wrong doing in the first place.

As this is just a preliminary request of information, for potential future proceedings, to assess whether or not to proceed with an appeal, or other better fitting actionable form of ‘moving forward’, according to the requested EUTW rules and/or applicable law, of which EUTW is, could be or should be, aware that may be a deciding factor of the potential future required investment of time and resources (out) of as they often refer to as (their) ‘real life’ priorities (exempli gratia id est, but not solely limited to, money, time, energy and resources), as it may affect the EUTW community in a detrimental fashion, one could decide to move to remove the ban entirely and therewith reinstate the account of 3Hugger as it was before the ban occurred and perform the required actions to minimize the current and future damages to the account of 3Hugger and the EUTW community, deriving from the actions by EUTW and bargain for 3Hugger to forgo on the past actions and consequences thereof and let 3Hugger continue to move freely on the EUTW servers without the obstruction of EUTW.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc ergo post factum nullum consilium 3Hugger may bona fide be willing to postpone any further action if EUTW removes the EUTW server ban(s) and maintains the removal of any (further) sanctions unless actual applicable server rules are broken and/or violated to such extend that punishable action to fair degree is grounded.

Taking into account the written above, if the permanent ban is wholly and extensively removed, then no further action would be required then for me to wish you: a very great day!



Post scriptum:
The registration of this account on the EUTW forum explicitly does not fall under the mandatory forum registration agreement, as the premise of the EUTW mandate to appeal on, with the direction to, this forum, the agreement is forced upon without feasible alternative, henceforth the mandatory registration agreement de facto equates floccinaucinihilipilification.
This account is a throw away account, created with the sole purpose of relaying information as per direction of the EUTW premise. Email or Personal Messages to this address won't arrive.

TheMasterofBlubb
PVP Warfare Admin
Posts: 487

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#2 » Sun 19 Jan, 2020 2:50 pm

Hello 3liminary,

Some questions upfront:
As you are asking for a set of personal data of a person, can you verify in any way that you are allowed to recieve the personal data as per GDPR requirements?
If so in what way shape or form may the data be delivered?
Is it correct that in the post scriptum you disagree with the registration agreement?

Greetting
Blubb

3liminary
Community Member
Posts: 2

Re: @EUTW & EUTW Community

Post#3 » Fri 24 Jan, 2020 12:07 pm

The former (original topic starter's) post is to provide the opportunity to determine the (good) will and intention(s) of EUTW.
The reaction above is the only one received, so in reaction:


The short:
EUTW is intentionally and willingly breaking actual national and/or international laws;

While 3Hugger is abiding these and other laws and even abides by the EUTW rules in place, 3Hugger always played by the rules, to such extend that on the servers there never was any warning, kick temporary or permanent ban, until the permanent ban was put in place;

EUTW holds the community to the rules and guidelines with practices in place like “gather and produce evidence to back your allegations up” and “not guilty until proven guilty” when it comes to the community, while EUTW themselves is cherry picking when they do and don’t adhere to these exact same rules and/or guidelines when they decided to put in place and continue to maintain a permanent server ban.

EUTW suggests:
‘...that the server ban must be placed with cause or would be illegitimate, an appeal may be in order, according to the EUTW premise.’ and one can appeal (and again asks for evidence to back up ones claims or requests).

By the original post of this topic, clearly showing the intend of being able to stick to rules, hence should be backing up the case made: never broke any server rules, while EUTW’s lack of evidence, charges and/or comprehensive communication and/or the action to lift the permanent ban to a more fair level, adds to the appearance of EUTW not being interested of doing so.

Proven and admitted guilty permanent bans were lifted in the past. This permanent ban is solely based on personal grudges held by EUTW admins whom gain by removing a critical voice of opposition, directly after this free speech voice made a formal complaint about an admin. A formal complaint that was never heard, yet the permanent ban is maintained.

EUTW so far has shown their intend and motivations on how to proceed,
the ball is in their court, it has been the whole time;

3Hugger moves to request the lift of the permanent ban.

Thank you for the lessons learned, the great times spend and best wishes to you!

The TL:DR:
Hidden Text
As after several days since the original post and several weeks after the initial occurrence of the ban and similar time since the first contact attempt of 3Hugger to contact EUTW admins, the above post is the only, both public and privately, form of reaction 3Hugger got from EUTW, therefor the above reaction will have to stand for the EUTW.

Although the message states;
"Some questions upfront" which may suggest that there is something on the 'back' of this initial posting, one may consider 5 days sufficient time to actually deliver the basic information, like the 'charges' or the 'evidence' or a simple hint of the intend of EUTW.
Especially if taken into consideration the speedy process of actually putting a permanent server ban in place.

So my reaction to the only form of communication and therewith the sole source of information one could perceive as an official statement made by EUTW, is as follows.

With the note that, as already written in the initial post;
“Failure to comply may be seen as evidence of obstruction of fair due process and speaks to the intend of EUTW, which may be taken into account when proceeding.” This reaction of EUTW speaks to the intend of EUTW when it comes to their willingness to actually act ‘fair’ or their suggestion of ‘the ball is with him’, probably a reference to state that the ‘ball is in one’s court’ or that to give the impression that there is legitimate potential to appeal for fair trial and/or get the permanent ban lifted.

One may deduct that EUTW does want to provide for the impression of fair proceedings, yet is either severely lacking and/or unwillingly to actually perform as suggested.

Nonetheless, the following:
"As you are asking for a set of personal data of a person, can you verify in any way that you are allowed to recieve the personal data as per GDPR requirements?"

Yes, if this would be required, yes of course, but you seem to forego some of the implication(s):

[*]EUTW does not provide for opt-in agreements to ‘anyone’, as there is no choice to opt-in, neither is there any form of a warning that data is logged and there is no opt-out information given. This while ‘everyone’ (with the means to actually do so and without prior relations to EUTW) can connect to the servers of EUTW, without being aware of the data mining practices by EUTW in place; Ergo data mining without consent is a fact;
[*]EUTW is herewith breaking actual applicable laws and has done so for extended periods of time;
- Among other, this is one of the reasons 3Hugger already openly communicated the following (05/18/2019: discord: “I (do not agree and) have serious ethical concerns for the EUTW policies and practices in place.”;
[*]EUTW does attempt to collect ‘donations’ with the following ‘perks’ in return, quote:
“Donate now” … “You will get the following donator perks” … “STATISTICS PAGE : Access to the Statistics , where you can browse your personal stats and see the action replays of finished rounds.”

[One may ask why is this important to the permanent ban, well among other, this may show the personal bias, the will to break or bend the rules and the intention to do so, informs about character and the ability to judge fairly.]
So this is proof of EUTW breaking actual laws, data mining and selling data to third parties without consent. And EUTW usually replies to this as lies and unfounded allegations, because all money goes to their infrastructure, their infrastructure is still (in part) being paid for with mined data. And EUTW only needs to break a single law to be able to correctly state that EUTW breaks the law.

3Hugger while abiding the law, not even breaking EUTW server rules, has received a permanent server ban and 3Hugger’s reputation is being smeared with statements by EUTW members of 3Hugger being a liar in a communication channel he also received a ban for, so 3Hugger is unable to fend for oneself.

Of these also supposedly lies is, just like in the case of the permanent server ban, never a single shred of evidence presented to back this allegation up. While everyone can check for facts, even EUTW themselves clearly either does not check for the facts to make sure they make an accurate representation of the truth, before they make their claims, or they simply are reluctant to communicate the factual probable truth.

Besides this, one could argue for EUTW breaking other actual national and/or international laws as well, violating the rights of others, but as one could deem the one example above to be sufficient to make the point, nonetheless of EUTW does understand, follow or agree, the point is considered to made.

Of course one can expect that the EUTW admins do not like voices of opposition, after all who does like to be proven wrong and who likes persons that disagree. But after many attempts to improve on the EUTW community, which a specific EUTW admin fights every step with tooth and nail and repeated heavy emotional loaded reaction from a specific admin like, and these are the quotes of a single EUTW admin:

[*]a bit pathetic to be honest and are quite revealing about your personality;
[*]piss off 3Hugger. Bye!
[*]Your attitude is pathetic. Just move on an annoy someone else with your ego problem.
[*]We have enough of your shit. Bye!
[*]I don’t give a flying fuck. ... This guy is a waste of my time and I won’t comment on it any further. ... he is talking out of his ass with his accusations. ...
[*]Little admin boy thought that he could just sit this out and take over the mod, ...
[*]... his ego got the better of him and he started being stupid and ruined it all. Too bad for him he wasted all that time now.
[*]... He can find another mod to pester. That’s the end of it for me.
[*]... I don’t take lies and bullshit accusations lightly, didn’t throw the first stone here.
Honestly, if people cannot see through his bullshit, I don’t care too much.

[*]... You seem to know it all. ... But I am sure we won’t be using any of 3Huggers layouts from now on.
[*]Bye 3Hugger! Have fun being toxic somewhere else!
And perhaps the most interesting one, seen current circumstances:
[*]He stepped out of line and when confronted decided to throw a tantrum publicly and taking shit. Of course he then gets confronted publicly. ...

And so on, then to one day to react to this admin, whom just logged in and was completely unaware of any context (of the community success that were initiated and booked, by 3Hugger, as 3Hugger was able to initiate together with the help of the community before):

(for context (paraphrasing):
3Hugger:
‘So far today we (as players on the server) try to enforce a 'please balance' system: ...
Please help out, like we did with the community 'no darter' policy we did before with success. ...
So far it works. ...
The way this works: ... (DATA) ...
Let's see if you can help out to make this a success! ...
The proof: In game it is still balanced objectives wise. ... (STATS) ...
Please make this a success and help out!’
)

Nyles just logs in and immediately posts:
( exact quotes:)
Nyles:
Hugger, final warning for spam in here. I am getting so tired of your spam
3Hugger:
Piss off Nyles, the community liked it and it was successful
Nyles:
Take it to the forum or suck it up
3Hugger:
Mister Negative
Nyles:
Just shut the fuck up and get lost
3Hugger:
We get something good going for the community and the first thing you do is piss on it
We had a great gaming day, join the server and have some fun.

Nyles:
You ignore my repeated request to stop spamming in here and insult me multiple times now. Just go away.
3Hugger:
Formal complaint about Nyles: he is misbehaving not according to the EUTW code of conduct. @GiPPO
Nyles:
Bla. Banned.

3Hugger received a permanent ban, on which the community reacted, before even knowing of the permanent server ban that coincided with this discord ban:
Image

One may or may not conclude that a discord ban is appropriate, but is it really appropriate to maintain a permanent ban on a community member, whom has arguably contributed the most to this community and was according to the community (exact quotes) ‘fairest’ and ‘nicest’ and ‘best community member ever’.
Is it correct that the ban is permanent on the server, with the accusation: ‘admin abuse’, while EUTW admins hardly play on these servers and the admin in question maybe shows up for 2 hours a year and hasn’t played for many months?

There is far more to this, but with every accusation produced by EUTW, it is not too difficult to show (good) intend, context and a comparable EUTW action that counter claims, probably solely by using exact factual quotes.

In the end, EUTW decides by their action, or lack thereof, what they want EUTW to be(come).

Nonetheless, EUTW still is a great community and can grow to become an even better one!

3Hugger moves to request the lift of the permanent server ban.


Image

Image
This account is a throw away account, created with the sole purpose of relaying information as per direction of the EUTW premise. Email or Personal Messages to this address won't arrive.

TheMasterofBlubb
PVP Warfare Admin
Posts: 487

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#4 » Fri 24 Jan, 2020 3:31 pm

Are you sure about that you need to opt in for when we want to log public information(yes your steam Id is perse public)?
Thats the only personal information(beside transaction informations of donations and forum data) that we have stored.

And to note checkout the Steam data privacy sheet point 5.4. There it states that some of your Profile data is actually public data. So there by we are offering non personal(your real person stuff is still handled by Steam) info with data that we collected in a non personal way (as the only linking part is your Steam ID). So here is the question: did you opt in that Gametracker tracks your points in the game?(probably not)
If data is public and has a purpose(managing bans and reviews for bans) to be logged it can be rightfully be logged.

If you like we can remove the linkage for 3Huggers SteamID so it wont be adressed as his datapoints.
As for recieving a copy of all private data logged you can just make a unformal sheet and we can provide it for you, only things we need are the answers on the before mentioned questions.

PS : the replay does not even show your Steam ID so its not even possible to link a replay to you as the Playername is a Name the player chose in the Arma profile and is not related to the SteamID. So by your own means this data is anonymized due to any player has the option to choose any name.

Any more questions regarding GDPR?

TheMasterofBlubb
PVP Warfare Admin
Posts: 487

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#5 » Fri 24 Jan, 2020 3:43 pm

Full quote for 18/5/2019

And I got banned from the forum, so I can't react! An other critic being silenced.
We can all guess what the next step is, as foretold and nobody dares to speak up against GiPPO or Nyles,.. also as foretold and often proven:

If you speak up you get locked up or disappear.

Now... that is why people may think:
"a bit pathetic to be honest and are quite revealing about your personality."

You've just confirmed what I have written every step of the way, thank you for that.
It was already known and everyone can fact check until you make more evidence of your actions disappear.

"Understand you can impose your will only because of the situation you are in, but a community can choose.
As did I, I chose to stop to step up and try to build from the inside, as I do not agree and have serious ethical concerns for the EUTW policies and practices in place."

BTW: did you notice how many of the community spoke out against me, versus how many spoke against you?
Whilst I hold no sway over anyone and you do!?

And now everything will go back to how it was,.. this will disappear and this will be the end of it,..
@Deleted User out.

@deleted user was one of 3Huggers accounts
Note that he said he got banned(eventhough it was his own wrong doing that disabled his account, no ban was or is in place)

Provided the quote for context.

TheMasterofBlubb
PVP Warfare Admin
Posts: 487

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#6 » Fri 24 Jan, 2020 6:22 pm

But just to please you, we will put in a small remark to a info of what we log and what everyone can see. :P

User avatar
durak_ivan
Donator
Posts: 151

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#7 » Wed 04 Mar, 2020 9:10 pm

I did enjoy the presence of 3Hugger.
I think by perma banning him, I'm loosing a good partner player, and somebody active in the community.
So I guess, we are all too accustom to free speech, and every now and than this free speech can result in
problems, grudges, etc...
So, I really would like to see 3Hugger around again.
As right now we have many new people dropping in, and the result is not enough veterans to share the game as opposite factions.
Right now is mainly stock up on one side of veterans vs few vets and new players.
Hard to enjoy the game play.

User avatar
scratch
Community Member
Posts: 994

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#8 » Thu 05 Mar, 2020 1:31 am

if he ever will decide to come back, i'm in

Pvt.Dick
Community Member
Posts: 5

Re: Preliminary appeal 3Hugger

Post#9 » Mon 30 Mar, 2020 10:38 am

+1

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