critical hit

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Likbjorn
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Re: critical hit

Post#51 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 10:13 am

Cobold wrote:
Likbjorn wrote:7.62+ caliber headshot

6.5+. Make MX great again! Minigun as well.
Otherwise, excellent idea.

Edit: hmmm, .45 maybe? Finish them with Zubr - brutal and unavoidable


6.5+ means NATO UK and CSAT Chineese are aside. And it will just exclude SMGs and 5.56/5.8 weapons. That's why I'm more for damage detection with increased threshold: to not be tied up with some weapons, but with bullet energy on moment of hit. Long-ranged headshot from rifle will not be critical, but close-range pistol hit will be.

Edit: simplier way (to make it obvious) here is to include table of weapons and range of critical hit for each of it. 10m for pistols, 70 for ARs, 300 for sniper rifles... More arcadish, but all reasons that Nyles said are satisfied and it's less frustrating.

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Cobold
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Re: critical hit

Post#52 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 10:33 am

So you propose making overkills critical? Meaning, when you hit an enemy for, say, 80hp when he is already damaged and has only 10hp, your last hit will be critical? Or do you mean only 150+hp hits will be the very last for them?
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Likbjorn
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Re: critical hit

Post#53 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 10:40 am

I meant second option, but first one is also good point to consider: find medic first if injured to stay alive.

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#54 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 11:36 am

Had 4 criticals in a row from inf yesterday after joining the server. Man I wish it was like when you introduced it. I know you did not touch it nyles but something is wrong. Right now it's killing the game. I spend more time in base than playing..and I am the kind of player trying to defend flags..the thing that annoys me a bit, don't take it personal, is you saying that the statistics of criticals are stil the same even though a lot of people say the opposite

esfumato
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Re: critical hit

Post#55 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 11:50 am

Nyles wrote:
esfumato wrote:BIS engine have a high population of cheaters.



It's an interesting thought, but any crits that happen from cheating should still appear in our statistics and drive the crit numbers sky high then.


Just with 2-3 players that use the aimbot in certain moments to take advantage you get those increases.

Having cheats doesn't mean that you are going to fly around headshoting everyone to get insta banned from the server.

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scratch
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Re: critical hit

Post#56 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 3:10 pm

M.O.R wrote:Had 4 criticals in a row from inf yesterday after joining the server
...
the thing that annoys me a bit, don't take it personal, is you saying that the statistics of criticals are stil the same even though a lot of people say the opposite

I think it's because when you got a critical hit you pay more attention to this fact than if you got killed normally. Looking to the rounds I played I can't say that it changed this hard. However I could be wrong.
the floor is lava!

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#57 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 5:23 pm

no no ..I write it down whenever I got a crit..It's not that I only focus on crits..I write it down in every round and for me it's way beyond 70%.. even more

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Deeelite
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Re: critical hit

Post#58 » Thu 24 Aug, 2017 5:20 pm

I keep on being crit hit under many unexplainable ways but, it's ok, it's fun anyway and something i can deal with but on each time it happens I cannot stop me from pressing PTT and scream on voip " fuck I'm critical !!!! " It's just an automatic reaction of mine ... hihi !
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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zef
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Re: critical hit

Post#59 » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 8:27 pm

Well.... I must be going insane. At least if there were no changes. :banghead: :nuts:

It seemed to happen a bit less for the past few times I played.

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#60 » Sun 07 Jan, 2018 1:28 pm

Gippo can you please look into this or turn it off. You drive to a flag wie a squad for some minutes. First one gets aimbot critical by ai through five bushes and a wall . The others by random 5.56 spray from 100m . I swear I liked it when you introduced it..when a headshot or explosion caused it. Now it's just a really annoying fun breaker..in particular if you play against the uber opfor body armor. They just run around with military caps and it's fine

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#61 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 12:56 pm

Bump. Lost two more friends who are sick of attacking a flag and get critical by random spray five times in a row. People are not having fun with this..

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MaloW
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Re: critical hit

Post#62 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 1:26 pm

+1

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#63 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 4:31 pm

MOR exposed as a liar. As if you would have any friends!

That said, I fully agree that AI should be excluded from critical ruleset. It’s an unnecessary punishment and makes initial sector attacks hard before the first player even shows up.

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#64 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 5:39 pm

Again , I like critical hit..but the way it was when you introduced it..now it's just bogus

TheN3r0
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Re: critical hit

Post#65 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 6:04 pm

Nyles wrote:MOR seriously, nothing has changed with crits recently, except that we made them appear less by excluding friendly fire.

Like I mentioned above, look at your body damage indicator when you get killed and observe what parts are red. It will be either the full body (most likely from an explosion) or the head (from a headshot, duh!) and in some cases a hit on the upper torso and head (i.e. hits from a heavy caliber weapon like the Kir or .50cal sometimes do that)


But why are you so afraid of Squad/Teamplay on the Servers? There is no benefit to play as a Squad except for the markers, at the moment every attempt to have some meaningfull squadplay get destroyed by Critical hits.

Yes Teams with strong Squads will be better, but isnt this the core part of this mission? To have Teamplay and outplay/outsmart the enemy?

Why "castrate" players in this regard?

Yes it is annoying if you killed 4 out of 5 guys and the last one is able to revive them. But were are your 4 friends in that situation.

Or maybe a way in the middle: Keep Critical but, make it so that only medics can revive you from it. Keep Squads together, let us play smart.

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#66 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 7:40 pm

The problem is that most veterans/teams stack Opfor and our servers rely heavily on individual public players. Making teamplay easier, will make those groups that are dominating the servers already even easier to do so.

It’s about finding the right balance - and it might not be there yet - however always put your head into those guys trying to keep a disfunct BLUFOR team together, facing organized squads. At least you can try repelling those by criting some of them and thinning the numbers. Dislodging a strong team is near impossible and will make it even easier for CSAT players to wipe the floor with a newb team, if they have infinite revives as long as one member survives.

We will try to tune crits further, but keep in mind that we are also limited in how arma’s damage systems can be manipulated.

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#67 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 7:54 pm

Ok them. I guess I stick to goofing around with my squad. Yesterday's 4 hour stalemate..drove dozens of times to opfor flag. Half the car got insta critical . Nyles. How often die you play Blufor in the past weeks months? It is nearly impossible to defeat stackfor. Those criticals are THE gamebreaker for organized teamplay now. And the opposite is the outcome. At war came in and asked why there is no communication and why I'm not even talking on voip. ..well

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#68 » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 8:17 pm

I didn’t play nearly as much as I would have loved to, but returning from work after midnight doesn’t help right now.

Those times I played, it has mostly been BLUFOR however. Some frustrating but also some really nice rounds for me personally. Yes crits can be annoying, but the reason BLUFOR fails is mostly because of missing strategy, like not reacting to sectors that need defending, MHQ placement, or wasting money on vehicles while jets are up or ignoring known AT/mine ambush spots.

The immediate things that will fix gameplay and set us on the right track are:

1. less frustrating spawning
2. teambalance handicaps
3. fixing layouts to reduce stalemates
4. reducing dominance of guided weapons
5. encouraging ground vehicle usage

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#69 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 4:43 am

oh no. I have to admit that for me one of the biggest gamebreakers is the crit..I would have much nicer rounds on blufor man, if the crits were not that random. I can only say what I experience..but well..I'd rather stay out of close quarter combat then..Because running in, getting crit on first contact, waiting 1 min in base to run in again to get crit again is not the game i want to play.. What about an option on a dead player, in the action menu, when you go over, you can finish him or so. whenever we are attacking something..the squad gets reduced way too quickly..people really dont like that.. i mean i have those guys in the group voip "aaahmmmm..critical..fuck .." "....i'm critical..." ...

actually ,,first thing to ask if somebody goes down: are you critical?? and everybody is happy if not :) ..that's just crap man..really.. I know you're busy..we are playing it often..just believe it..It ruins all the tactical aspects of squad work

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MaloW
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Re: critical hit

Post#70 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:28 am

M.O.R wrote:oh no. I have to admit that for me one of the biggest gamebreakers is the crit..I would have much nicer rounds on blufor man, if the crits were not that random. I can only say what I experience..but well..I'd rather stay out of close quarter combat then..Because running in, getting crit on first contact, waiting 1 min in base to run in again to get crit again is not the game i want to play.. What about an option on a dead player, in the action menu, when you go over, you can finish him or so. whenever we are attacking something..the squad gets reduced way too quickly..people really dont like that.. i mean i have those guys in the group voip "aaahmmmm..critical..fuck .." "....i'm critical..." ...

actually ,,first thing to ask if somebody goes down: are you critical?? and everybody is happy if not :) ..that's just crap man..really.. I know you're busy..we are playing it often..just believe it..It ruins all the tactical aspects of squad work


+1 on everything you said, my exact experience when I play with my squad as well. Also the idea of finishing someone off in melee range is a good idea too I think instead of the crit, as long as it has a cast-time like the revive.

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Deeelite
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Re: critical hit

Post#71 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 12:43 pm

Is it my turn now ?

Okay.

Not all the players can play with same performances ( lag / gpu settings / .... age :ugeek: )

Thus some are advantaged, some are penalized due outher and uncontrollable factors.

I'm super in with the rule " wtf, I EXPLODED UR BRAIN OUT OF UR HEAD: GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE !!! "

but...


having your actions contantly interrupted by a matter of enemy skills merged with physics and performances takes away the fun, according the opinion of many players. Personally, I can 'undergo' every changement you implement, as I did with this one but let me suggest a crit. hit modification we all could better deal with:

1) the player spawns in map and cannot be killed with crit.hit feature ( maybe only in the case he's fully wounded, maybe not)
2) once the player got killed and revived (both by medic or player) then crit hit feature is opened.
3) respawn will reset to point 1.


Deee,
cheers.
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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Miko_Raccoon
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Re: critical hit

Post#72 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 2:13 pm

M.O.R wrote:whenever we are attacking something..the squad gets reduced way too quickly..people really dont like that..


As solo player I love it though :) Back in older arma games all kills were crits, there was no reviving, and with no armor plates all it took was 1-2 5.45 / 5.56 hits to kill. I surely miss those days that are never to return.
I still remember pre-crit days on eutw. I'm tank gunner, I see enemy infantry - I open fire. 125mm cannon shell to the face, nice hit. But the guy is revived by his teammates so I fire another shot to the face and we repeat until my tank is out of ammo. Great experience :D Artillery was useless too. Similar with infantry fights at flags. I'm last defender on flag, 50/100, but I see that help is on the way. Meanwhile enemy CSAT team approaches through open field, they are members of one clan. I killed 4 enemy guys, but 5th got me (his "dead" comrades would obviously report my position since "dead" people can hear and see, their purple markers are also indication of where ei can be located), and within 10s all these 4 enemy guys are alive again. Flag is captured, stackfor wins once again, gg :D "Killing" them was useless waste of ammo, it would be better to stay and hide to slow down ticking. With crit feature players may tend to act more suicidal because being killed means that he may be back alive in same place after 5s of reviving. The risk of crit hit isn't high, it's somehwere around 25%? (stats are broken atm so can't check this now). Some players are more/less lucky than others but it's still not uncommon to see player being revived 4 times in a row.

I'm writing this because there is always another side to the coin. I can understand the frustration of crits.. Random spray crits or similar stuff that doesn't involve anyone's skill (like random projectile that missed its intended target and hit me instead). When I used to play with squad mates crits were often breaking our squad, that's correct. We found out that best experience for us was using the same vehicle so if we die - we die all together. Another solution was that those of us who were critically hit just waited at base, studied the map to help others etc, there's always something to do when waiting for friends. We also took for granted that being hit = being dead/back to base. So if someone was only "killed" with possibility for revive - that was a bonus and unexpected thing. That way we weren't dissapointed with crits.
At the same time it seems that majority of players are solo random players (at least on Blu) and crit helps us a bit.

Fixing these things sounds amazing:

1. less frustrating spawning
2. teambalance handicaps
3. fixing layouts to reduce stalemates
4. reducing dominance of guided weapons
5. encouraging ground vehicle usage

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Deeelite
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Re: critical hit

Post#73 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

yeah, good points, but whatever we think Raccon, what we need 2 know here is:

IS CRIT HIT A REASON THAT MAKES SERVERS EMPTY ?

Beacuse, in this case we have a HUGE problem, otherwise is totally ok.
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#74 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:35 pm

I personally don't think that's the big reason, but even if it isnt that shouldnt stop us from trying to improve the system.

It has its purpose as outlined above, but it shouldnt always break teams apart.

What I would consider as a reasonbale thing to try out is ignoring critical damage if a medic is within 100m, but instead drastically reduce the time possible to revive to let's say 60 seconds. Medics - as part of an attack force - could then actually keep their team intact if they themselves stay close but dont expose themselves to incoming fire.

Just a brainfart, but could help with the teamplay conerns raised. Would require a feasability assessment from GiPPO, but doesnt sound like the most difficult thing to do.

M.O.R
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Re: critical hit

Post#75 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 7:09 pm

cant you just make it like it was in the beginning?? That was nice.. direkt headshot= critical.. explosion or tank = critical ..not random spray while doing counterstrike sidesteps from 300m..I loved it when you came up with it..it's just broken now..and it is killing teamplay. it changed the whole game..either turn off revive, so crit only as meeko said, or fix the crit..or turn off crit..the way it is right now is driving squadplayers nuts..that's for sure

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