critical hit

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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#26 » Tue 08 Aug, 2017 11:23 pm

Nyles wrote:
zef wrote:As I noted in the UGL (ab)use thread, with the new critical logic, UGL is the way to go


What *new* critical logic is that, please?


New as in it wasn't there before Nyles, no need to be condescending.

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Nyles
EUTW Management
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Re: critical hit

Post#27 » Tue 08 Aug, 2017 11:27 pm

But there have been no changes to the critical damage ruleset. It's been pretty much unchanged for the last year or longer, except for excluding friendly fire.

:kiss:

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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#28 » Tue 08 Aug, 2017 11:38 pm

Well, then something else has changed recently(ish) that has an effect on the frequency of crits - arma variables/damage model, layout rotation (more CQB or less CQB or whatever that may influence critical hits), splash damage from explosives, cheaters with aimbots, connectivity exploiters, network performance, lunar cycles, solar flares.... whatever.

I've noticed an increase in the amount of critical hits, as well as some of my regular teammates, and a few random people mentioned it in chat. Now then, it could be that we're all weird, I'm not denying that - but I came here to express the observation.

As you didn't change the logic/ruleset itself, let me apologize for the inaccurate wording in my original post ;)

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#29 » Tue 08 Aug, 2017 11:53 pm

The great thing is that with our telemetry system, we have an awesome repository for statistics. Just check out stats.eutw.net and compare the critical hits per faction (listed separately for infantry and vehicle kills)
from the last 50 sessions and maybe grab a couple of samples from earlier games.

You should notice that it usually normalizes between 25 and 33 percent crits. Sometimes vehicles cause more and inf will be lower, sometimes vice versa.

If there was a huge climb to let's say 50 percent or higher, sure it would indicate that something changed - either on our end or directly with the game. However, I at least cannot see anything in there.

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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#30 » Wed 09 Aug, 2017 10:44 am

Numbers don't lie, of course - but unfortunately I don't have the time to go into analysis - I'd have to pull up the matches I was part of, compare percentages of crits and other factors...

Let's just say then that it's up to my subjective feeling/experience.



There is no increase in critical hits.



Ok now? :bigthumb: :cheers:

Steve0
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Posts: 392

Re: critical hit

Post#31 » Wed 09 Aug, 2017 6:59 pm

On first glance it does look like a sizeable increase
Image however the scale exaggerate it quite a bit.

This is the same with a more sensible scale
Image

Its hard to see the legend, but the dark green is infantry crit percentage, and light green is vehicle crit percentage.
First Game: 2016-07-13 08:07:08.000
Last Game: 2017-08-09 12:27:32.000

Processing:
  • Only includes games with > 200 kills to smooth out some of the noise
  • Each datapoint represents the average crit % over a week.
  • Scraped from stats.eutw.net so likely contains mistakes

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Nyles
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Re: critical hit

Post#32 » Wed 09 Aug, 2017 7:03 pm

Nice!

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HaseDesTodes
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Re: critical hit

Post#33 » Wed 09 Aug, 2017 7:16 pm

so about 13 weeks ago (around the 10th of May) the average infantry crit rate increased by about 6% (relative increase 20%) from avg. 28% to avg. 34%.

what got changed back then? game or mission update (or both)?

Edit:
ok 16th of may was the release of Jets DLC and v.1.70

so probably there was some balancing change or they changed some functions, so that crits behave differently.

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GiPPO
EUTW Management
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Re: critical hit

Post#34 » Wed 09 Aug, 2017 7:50 pm

Either way, I still plan to look into the critical hit mechanism - as I said it's not the perfect detection right now.
The point was that we didn't change it (although there was a version of the DEV test when it wasn't working at all).
"If It Isn't Documented, It Doesn't Exist"

Steve0
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Posts: 392

Re: critical hit

Post#35 » Fri 11 Aug, 2017 3:49 pm

I still maintain that the current level of Crit's are not bad.

It just means we get a slightly different style of play. Its nice to mix things up :)

esfumato
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Re: critical hit

Post#36 » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 1:04 pm


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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#37 » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 2:28 pm

So I'm not the only one that's seen weird stuff on the servers lately. Good to know.

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Deathicael
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Re: critical hit

Post#38 » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:06 am

I'm not even getting headshot and being force respawned ...
"Never attribute to Malice that which can easily be explained by Stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor :nuts:

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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#39 » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:48 am

Just get used to it and take it as the new default.
Every now and then when you are able to be revived, be happy that you are not back in base :)

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Deeelite
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Re: critical hit

Post#40 » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 5:58 pm

I really don't like crit hits... too much of realism is pissing me off in a game where lag is everithing.
Every player has different standards in terms of CPU, GPU, game setting and network speed.
Are we so sure possibilities are the same for everyone in order to squeeze our skills to the bone?
I'd rather have a longer revive animation depending on the inflicted damage and be unable to chat as well till I'm down (" nmy at my body ") and let crit hits active only under heavvy explosions such as granades, mines and bombs.

Reviving is a good teamplay companion...and a good chance for enemy to kill more players...
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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scratch
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Posts: 968

Re: critical hit

Post#41 » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 6:21 pm

always aiming head, to prevent "come back" mode on already dead people. this feature should stay
the floor is lava!

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Nyles
EUTW Management
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Re: critical hit

Post#42 » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 6:28 pm

It's also important to avoid infantry picking up everybody back again after artillery or airstrikes. Without critical hits, the only way to deny a sector would be to get boots on the ground, making HE weapons or snipers obsolete. There have been some great moments where a couple guys were able to kill the attackers and stall a sector before the cap was completed because. We need to keep such moments in and be careful that core infantry sitting in a sector is not becoming the only way to take a sector.

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Deeelite
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Re: critical hit

Post#43 » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 6:14 pm

Yes Nyles, I surely have got the goal of this fetaure at its 1st release, no further expleination needed about and I was supporting it too... at the beginning. But as MOR stated, I must agree: something is weird. Too often I got crit hit while running or moving by riflemen @ 150-300 mts away, shooting only 1 or 2 bullets. Too often.

Not only: many times I could not crit hit enemies from behind, still standing and few meters from me...and don't tell me "you did not aim the head", plz.

So, what's wrong? Can someone else confirm the same?
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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zef
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Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#44 » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 6:56 pm

Dee, I also feel that something is off with the crit mechanic. Also a few of my friends that I play with regularly. As well as several people that have commented during play in global chat.

Statistics don't lie, however, so we must be ;)

esfumato
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Re: critical hit

Post#45 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 7:09 am

BIS engine have a high population of cheaters.


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Nyles
EUTW Management
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Re: critical hit

Post#46 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 8:34 am

Deeelite wrote:Not only: many times I could not crit hit enemies from behind, still standing and few meters from me...and don't tell me "you did not aim the head", plz.


Please separate one-shot-kills from critting someone. It's not the same thing. You can kill players with a single hit other than a headshot and still not give them crit damage. Helmets, body armor, shitty hit detection all play their part in this and it's nothing we can control. If you cannot kill a player at close range, it has nothing to do with our systems and is purely a problem with the game. Crits are a system sitting on top based on damage received for specific body parts.

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Nyles
EUTW Management
Posts: 3370

Re: critical hit

Post#47 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 8:41 am

esfumato wrote:BIS engine have a high population of cheaters.



It's an interesting thought, but any crits that happen from cheating should still appear in our statistics and drive the crit numbers sky high then.

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Likbjorn
PVP Warfare Dev
Posts: 1059

Re: critical hit

Post#48 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 9:42 am

Make critical hit a privilege

I see from this discussion that players complain more about critical hits they get from infantry. In opposite, Nyles state critical hit more like countermeasure to organised squads and avoiding survival after powerfull weapons strikes. Mechanics of critical hit can be changed in a way to satisfy both sides.
It must be more obvious and less randomised for player who recieve crit. Headshot is obvious, but I mean different thing. Critical hit should be a privilege, like vehicles are. From other side, player must have option to think about how to avoid critical, not only avoiding reciprocal contact with enemy.
Vehicle/arty/airstrike critical hits percentage is good and it's not frustrating, because you know that's not a toy. Vehicles are rare comparing to infantry and they cost their money to have privelege of critical hit. In this way you leave feature of effective arty/air strikes, leaving percentage the same.
I guess critical hit percentage of infantry kills must be reduced by some way: limit list of weapons which cause critical. HE weapons like GL, grenades, AP mines are things you can avoid or notice that someone is using it against you, to come up what to do with, so it can be crithit weapons. 7.62+ caliber headshot can also become a crithit. If it's possible, better to set up higher limit for damage in head to provide critical (like 200hp damage needed over basic 100hp to make it critical) to exclude less powerfull weapons. In this case, critical hits caused by infantry will be reduced, but not totally excluded.

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Cobold
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Re: critical hit

Post#49 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 10:06 am

Likbjorn wrote:7.62+ caliber headshot

6.5+. Make MX great again! Minigun as well.
Otherwise, excellent idea.

Edit: hmmm, .45 maybe? Finish them with Zubr - brutal and unavoidable
Recon Raccoon Squad
Hazardous Mouse wrote:First reason why its may looks like before was better is ^^ just cuz we were worse before than now.

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zef
Community Member
Posts: 313

Re: critical hit

Post#50 » Wed 23 Aug, 2017 10:11 am

Cobold wrote:6.5+. Make MX great again! Minigun as well.


I haven't played BLU in a while, but unless their starting weapon is some 5.45 or 5.56 slingshot like other factions, then... no.
Either that, or dispense with small caliber (<6.5) weapons completely and have reds and greens start with 6.5+.

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