Balancing Teams

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Domi Duplex
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Balancing Teams

Post#1 » Fri 04 Apr, 2014 11:44 pm

Hey,

I don't know the scripting language of Arma so I don't know how much work or if at all possible:

But I would suggest putting newly joined people randomly in one of the teams.

At the moment you get put in Blufor which leads us to a pickle most of the regulars on the server know:
Everyone who hasnt played the mission before stays in Blufor. Most experienced players choose Opfor because of that. Ergo the team is rather full of inexperienced players and all too often (but not everytime mind you) Teams get unbalanced because of this.

Maybe this could be avoided by just randomly putting newly joined in teams.

Best Regards,
Dom

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MarkoCRO
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Posts: 610

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#2 » Sat 05 Apr, 2014 9:03 pm

i don't think that is good idea, people should be able to chose their faction regardless, and team stacking is other issue, even if they stack one team it comes balanced in most cases in short time.
If it gets to that point that we must act on that subject i would rather make something else:
-if team is stacked you cant get in game on that team until difference is +/- 3 players

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Deeelite
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#3 » Sun 22 Mar, 2020 6:19 pm

Domi Duplex wrote: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 11:44 pm

April 2014 - March 2020 ...

what has changed ?
"When taking part in a discussion, the most difficult thing is not defending your opinion, but knowing what it is in the first place." André Maurois

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darthinjecteer
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#4 » Thu 26 Mar, 2020 11:43 pm

we need to have a auto-kick to lobby function, when player numbers are inadequate.

It just does work to rely on so-called "self-organization", because this ruins games.

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|DJ| JOHN
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#5 » Mon 29 Jun, 2020 9:32 pm

Dear all,

The balancing issue has become a daily matter.

I would like to summarise my thoughts for month June 2020.

Please see example 1 below:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

This is a terribly unbalanced game. On the surface you see 18vs18 but 152xp vs 95xp is a ridiculous imbalance. You can appreciate who the worst offenders are.

It is obvious that the offenders, joined in the game discreetly but they still "stacked". So when the game was 13vs13 for example, but still Greens were way overpowered, then a new player joined Blues, and then a Green "veteran" "stacker" joins Greens and so on.

I hope Admins take note and start penalising these offenders at some point. Their game is terribly disruptive!

===================================================================
14.06.20

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

In this game from the very beginning it was 5 Reds vs 4 Greens.

Then Higgs "stacked". He joined Reds making it 6 Reds vs 4 Greens

Then Leroy "stacked" to Reds and made it 7 Reds vs 4 Greens

Then Queen "stacked" to Reds and made it 8 Reds vs 4 Greens.

These 3 players unbalanced the game from the very beginning. This is also a terribly disruptive gaming.
=================================================================
16.06.20

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

It is 6v6, 41xp Greens vs 30xp Blues and Leroy (10xp) joins Greens. This is disruptive, unbalancing gaming from Leroy.

On the same game a bit later:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

It is 7v7, 51xp Greens vs 39xp Blues, Greens are winning (4 towns) vs Blues (3 towns), and Darth joins Greens, unbalancing the game to 60xp Greens vs 39xp Blues!! This is disruptive gaming from Darth!

=====================================================================
19.06.20

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

The game was 9 Reds (66xp) vs 8 Blues (60xp). Reds have 4 towns and Blues have 2 towns, which means Reds are comfortably control the game. Darth joins Reds unbalancing the game to 10 Reds (75xp) vs 8 Blues (60xp)!!!

====================================================================
28.06.20

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

The game was Greens 16 (106xp) vs Blues 14 (92xp), with Greens controlling the game with 5 towns vs 3 Blue towns.

Then Peter joined the game and unbalanced it even more to Greens 17 (113xp) vs Blues 14 (92xp).

One minute later Bhudda Priest joined Greens unbalancing the game even more to:
Greens 18 (121xp) vs Blues 14 (92xp).

=====================================================================
Sun 28.06.20

Having in mind all the above, JUST for month June 2020, because this disruptive gaming has been going on since 2017 (check my posts on other threads), I have Bhudda just yesterday accusing me of unbalancing the game:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

If you check the screenshot, a bit more carefully than Bhudda did, you will appreciate that Blues did not stack, but Greens just quit! The graph on the top right of the screenshot illustrates my point perfectly!

Luckily, I made a screenshot just 5 minutes earlier at that game:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

It is very clear (to me) that 4 players from Greens quit the game within 5 minutes. The only guy who "stacked" on Blues is Ape for me who just joined the game.

However Greens (Bhudda, Furry Ape, Alcmeonfr, Janxy) started complaining on me last night:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

At the time, I did not even realise their whining, as I was busy having fun at Pyrgos South.

Therefore these players find FAIR, that since 5 of their teammates left the game, that I should swap teams and "balance" the game, while I have been in that game for 3 hours. By then I had all my top kit, vests, rockets, AT & AA launchers, and according to the screenshot below I had $31,000. I remember I was saving for the thermal goggles, which I bought next for $50,000. And according to these players mentioned above, it would be FAIR for me to lose all the above and start over on $15,000.

I find their attitude absolutely pathetic!

I hope all our new players read this thread as soon as they join our community. This is one of the best games and the best MOD I have ever encountered in my 30 year of hardcore gaming. These players mentioned above are terribly arrogant & ignorant. They should be noted down, and basically be ignored. Their example should be avoided.

My example

I hope my attitude is followed as an example. I find it the most fair, clever and fun attitude. I am always open to constructive criticism, so I can improve my game/fun.

First of, I am a stacker. I love Blues. I love them because I played with them for 90% of my 7000+ hours I have played with EUTW. I know all their strengths and weaknesses, that is why I enjoy playing with them 100%.

For the same reason I hate playing with Reds. I know nothing about them.

There is nothing wrong for me, stacking to one team. However the people mentioned above will tell you otherwise. Please ignore them. Because I must have proved above, they are terribly arrogant, ignorant and therefore very confused.

They have confused and correlated the "stacking" and "inbalance". They believe that when you stack, then you unbalance. But that is not true.

I always stack on Blues, but I never unbalance the game.

For example, it happened in the previous game mentioned above, played just yesterday:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

I checked the status of the game: 3 Blues vs 2 Reds. I wanted to play with Blues. I simply DID NOT join the game. I waited for a few minutes and I joined blues at that moment:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

I waited for 11 minutes before I joined the game. I prioritised the "balance" of the game to my personal desire to stack with Blues. That is why I consider myself as a considerate player, compared to the terribly arrogant and stupid players mentioned above.

Leroy for example does not prioritise balance. He stacks on Reds just as much as I stack on Blues, but he unbalances the game in the process as I illustrated above.

I do not know Higgs and Queen. I assume they have been with EUTW for sometime but changed their names.

However I know Leroy Jenkins very well. According to data I have available (see screenshot below), Leroy has played most hours in EUTW only less than me:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Assuming prudently that Leroy must have played in all EUTW servers (they used to be 4) approximately 7,000 hours, and still chooses to unbalance and therefore disrupt our gaming, I can confidently say, I have no hope for him. For me he is the most arrogant player within our community. He will do whatever he likes, and will completely ignore fair game and fun of others.

Another such terrible example is Darth. He must have played 6,000 hours within EUTW, according to my screenshot above. He also stacks on Reds which is ok, but he will also does what he likes, disregarding completely fair and balanced game as I illustrated also above.

I hope it is clear for our new players that stacking in one team is ok, but unbalancing the game is not. You can be a stacker and a considerate player, and you can be a stacker and an arrogant player like in the examples I showed above.

Imbalance by players leaving

This is another terribly misunderstood issue. And if it is misunderstood by "veterans" after 6000+ hours of gaming, I feel obliged to clarify the matter for these "veterans" and also our new players.

Situations like these happen almost every day:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Small clans of players join the game together but they also log out together. It is logical, especially during the evenings. Because real life comes first before gaming. If we have to go to bed so we go to College/ University/ work the next morning, it is fair enough.

At that point in the game however, some players have to suffer a bit. The question is who.

Answer 1, is the one of Leroy, Darth, Furry Ape, Ap6aHoB, Bhudda Priest, and the list goes on. According to them, since 4 players left the game from Greens, 3 players at least, should join Greens from Blues in the above example. If there are 3 players that just joined the game, then it would be ok to switch team since they lose nothing. However Darth, Bhudda and the rest requested ME to switch, after me being in the game for 3 hours. So they find FAIR, that I suffer, by losing all my money and weapons, and start from scratch. And the joke does not stop there, because I am certain they have not thought this through.

If we follow their logic, equally an hour later, maybe 2 Blues go to bed, so since I was the last in the game with Greens I have to join back to Blues to balance the game again, so therefore I lose again all my perks and start over again!

With that logic, most nights, where the games peak at 20:00 UK time, we would have maybe 3-5 players until 23:00 when server has emptied, switching back and forth, starting from scratch each time.

Whoever supports this idea, can you appreciate how pathetic and absolutely no fun at all for anyone switching is?

The only players that would enjoy that gaming, would be the ones who start on $15,000 buy a few vehicles, spend all their money, and then switching teams, to get another $15,000, buy more vehicles and so on. This kind of gaming is actually disruptive, and we all know EUTW has banned such players. However with your idea of game balancing, you actually encourage this banned gaming style. Could this idea be any more contradictory, bureaucratic, and no fun at all? Could it be any more stupid?

My answer, which I have been arguing and implementing for months, is a lot FAIRER and a lot simpler.

Everybody should carry on until the end of the game/ night.

Let's call it "Natural Selection" or "Act of God" or "Sudden Death". And I am leading by example on this. I have never complained on such cases.

An example it happened 10 days ago:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

It was 21:40 in UK, but 22:40 in Spain, Germany & Poland, 23:40 in Finland & Russia. It was getting late. A lot of my teammates left, the game became imbalanced in favour of the Greens but I did not say a word. I have never said a word on such cases.

According to the graph on the top right corner, at 10h 45m of the game, there was a fairly balanced game, approximately 21 Greens vs 19 Blues. Then you can see Blues start going to bed for the night. I accepted that and I said nothing.

However, 7 minutes later, approximately 10h 52m, you can clearly see Blues still going to bed, but Green joining in! The offenders here are Bhudda Priest, and Juanpablo. By 10h 55m they have made the game 22 Greens vs 15 Blues.

All in all I hope the new players can appreciate the following:

It is very important to balance the game when you JOIN!

When you log out, because real life has priority, you will also imbalance the game. When you do it to others, do not worry, real life is more important.

If you are one of the players left in the game however, do not ruin the game for the others still in the game.

IT IS NOT FAIR TO RUIN SOMEONE'S FUN, BY REQUESTING HIM TO SWITCH, BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE LEFT THE GAME.

This sentence cannot be understood by a lot of so called "veterans". As I mentioned above, if you play the game for 5000+ hours and you still do not get it, there is no hope for you!

To take it further, for me the actual fault lies on the ones who log out. I appreciate if a game has been on for 3 hours or more and then you log out to go to bed. However when a new game starts and you log out 30 mins later, that is also disruptive. And it is the very same arrogant players mentioned above, who not only they unbalance the game when they join, but they also unbalance by leaving early. When I start something I finish it! If I cannot finish it, I do not even start it! Simple, fair and considerate!

I hope lessons will be learnt from the above. Nevertheless I will keep on naming and shaming these arrogant players.

I am always open to constructive criticism for any of the above as I also want to maximise fair game and fun for my most favourite game ever!

In the meantime, as I get a lot of aggro in the game and discord, I would like the "veterans" to shut their cake holes, think the above through, and stop being hypocrites!

Respectfully
|DJ| John
:nato:

TheMasterofBlubb
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Posts: 568

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#6 » Mon 29 Jun, 2020 10:13 pm

Some side notes:
A) the EXP value is very diffixult to interpret due to its faulty nature(im working on that), as for example i sometimes happen to slay people like leroy and co although i have like 1/2 of the EXP (not always though)
B) the 12K join money got changed with the last update. Your Gear and Money is saved per team. When you join a team you get your bonus according to the time gone by, then the counter resets, so when after Xh the game becomes unbalanced you actually CAN switch to the other team and get a small push in money, although the bug where you could get infinite money shouldnt be present anymore(notify us if it still happens). So if the match is short term unbalanced you can switch to one team and later rejoin to your old one essentially without loosing your own gear.

PS : its only 74% Blufor for John, and 50% Opfor and 25% each for Green and Blue for Leroy (just fun stats)
Winner here is Queen with almost exact 33% each faction (184h total)
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Elvis_FIN
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#7 » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 3:59 am

John. You seem to be person who likes to talk quite directly, so I suppose you also can take quite direct talk on you? So, I'll be quite direct with you.

I do not get the logic why it is fine that you always play on blue and it is not fine that some like to play always on red? And to be better player you should know you enemy. Playing more on each team you'll know better everyone's strenghts and weaknesses. So go to opfor and learn.

Balancing teams is not only at the start of the game or when joining the game, but you can balance also during the game. If you really like balanced game, you (yes, also you!) can switch team in the middle of the game to make it more balanced and more fun to all. Forget your money and gear, have fun. Also you can ask help from new team to get you better gear. We have to remember that this game mod is basically "you can jump in and jump out whenever you like", so keeping balance is always hard. Let's enjoy those rounds which are well balanced. I also would like to have greatly balanced teams everytime, not just possible. And for me it looks like you are more worried about balance when your team is having less guys/exp, but not when you are having more guys/exp. You like to build winning team on you? But hey, it shouldn't be just winning, it should be good game and good fun.

If you want a balanced game, then why you are even stopping guys to switch team?
https://i.imgur.com/LdF1AvT.jpg

Or you can even lie ("bot if afk") to get players on your side even teams were 4 vs 3 for you at the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46CJO4jYKIQ

Have you ever thought that because of you, maybe some players choose opposite team? Many times when playing on same team with you, it feels like it is your game and your team. But it is not your team, you are not the commander. If people do not do what you say/like, that does not mean they are doing wrong. They might be doing right, you might be wrong. Your tactic "push, push, attack, attack" is not always correct one. That is good for everyone to understand, we all do mistakes, no one is always right. Everyone should look at the mirror and think about the picture he sees. Also hopefully understanding what he sees.

By my understanding it is not against any EUTW rules to choose a team you want to play. But your text above is quite close (if not even over the line) against EUTW rules 'INSULTING' and 'HARASSING OR GRIFFING' rules. Why you attack so hardly against those guys? I think it is not doing any good. I think it is doing bad for EUTW. Relax, have fun!

I suggest everyone stop spamming this balance chat on global. Or just disable global chat if that shit won't stop. 90% of time that global chat is just BS and not going anywhere, just people start throwing shit on each other. Sometimes global chat is nice to have, so hopefully that channel can stay open and shit stops.

|DJ| JOHN wrote: "I hope my attitude is followed as an example. I find it the most fair, clever and fun attitude. I am always open to constructive criticism, so I can improve my game/fun"

Sorry John. To be honest, I can't agree. Just a few examples below.
And this kind of attitude I hope not to see more at EUTW.
https://i.imgur.com/uRar4y2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SlUdS8P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Jh9xdnj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tSnFVYu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GdGSaIN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TQG8Iac.jpg

And feel free to be direct when replying back to me. I can handle it.

And by the way, it is not "our servers", it is "EUTW servers". And it is not "my team", it is "our team". Yea?

Leroy
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#8 » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 8:37 am

"Yea?" :lol: :lol: :lol:

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#9 » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 1:15 pm

@Leroy a small share of Elvis_FINs post is for you too, just so you dont feel at ease.
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Leroy
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Re: Balancing Teams

Post#10 » Wed 01 Jul, 2020 7:00 am

"I suggest everyone stop spamming this balance chat on global. Or just disable global chat if that shit won't stop. 90% of time that global chat is just BS and not going anywhere, just people start throwing shit on each other. Sometimes global chat is nice to have, so hopefully that channel can stay open and shit stops."

I guess you mean this part and i agree. It get´s out of hand sometimes.

Maybe it is possible to combine the mute option from voip with text on side and global chat?

Torpedos
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Posts: 16

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#11 » Wed 01 Jul, 2020 2:01 pm

I’m not very good in english, so i am sorry)

I analyzed what is happening on the server in disbalance problem... In fact, the big problem is the global separation of experienced players on the server, so look like [DJ]John ALWAYS plays for
Bluefor and maybe a couple more good ones players.

For red\green ALWAYS play Darth, Jah, Toki, and even Saint Leroy and recently Grenadier and the lots others veterans, which you often know very well too, it turns out like this: - on one side
f.gs (admin, this is not an insult) i mean experienced players who know all aspects.
On the other side of John who has the ability to steer a horde of zerg of lemings in the right direction or endure until the reds are exhausted and go to sleep, sometimes the god Mudokon helps
with his magic scripts or so.
I think without this, the bluefor vs red\green win ratio would be 10% to 90% at best.

I don’t know why so, maybe this is a political choice, depending on where the player lives and they don’t like Nato, maybe Darth loves his opfor geely or rifle, Toki his 12 mm silent
rifle etc. I really don’t know, but it is JUST A FACT!
I’m from Russia, of course opfor \ greens is closer to me in spirit, I don’t like Nato, but I go over the side which is out of place at https://stats.eutw.net.
The fact is that on red \ green the side is now overwhelmed by good players.
How to solve this? NO WAY! Wait until the good players like John start playing for bluefor, but now there will be an imbalance. Something like this guys(

p.s.: I didn’t want to offend anyone and nothing personal, I love you ALL, guys and I like playing with you on the best public in the Arma 3! just thoughts

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|DJ| JOHN
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Posts: 87

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#12 » Wed 01 Jul, 2020 7:53 pm

Elvis,

Thank you for you contribution.

Elvis_FIN wrote:You seem to be person who likes to talk quite directly, so I suppose you also can take quite direct talk on you?


I really appreciate it and I like it exactly the way you just said it mate.

Elvis_FIN wrote:I do not get the logic why it is fine that you always play on blue and it is not fine that some like to play always on red?


Elvis, you misunderstood me mate. I totally believe in stacking. If Leroy, Darth, Bhudda and the rest like to play always on Reds I support that. I want people to have fun the same way I have fun only with Blues. I proved with my earlier post that you can stack, like I do on Blues and never unbalance the game. But you can stack like Leroy and Darth and unbalance the game like I illustrated with tangible evidence.

Elvis_FIN wrote:And to be better player you should know you enemy. Playing more on each team you'll know better everyone's strenghts and weaknesses. So go to opfor and learn


This comment is irrelevant to "balancing" and this thread mate. And sorry Elvin I will not play with Reds. I come in here to play and have fun mate. You are asking me to come in here and stop having fun. I know better than any of you how "I" can have fun! I tried Reds and I did not have fun, because there is no challenge, because a lot of good (but silly) players already join Reds.

Elvis_FIN wrote:Balancing teams is not only at the start of the game … Forget your money and gear, have fun


Sorry again Elvis, you are just telling me how I can have fun again. You do not know "me" better than "me" mate. If you do not need money to have fun I am happy for you. However I need money in the game to have fun. So no, I will not change back and forth to "balance" the game because other players choose to leave the game! I find this back and forth NOT fun at all. Sorry.

Elvis_FIN wrote:We have to remember that this game mod is basically "you can jump in and jump out whenever you like… And for me it looks like you are more worried about balance when your team is having less guys/exp… You like to build winning team on you?


Elvis, I have no issue when you jump out. Because as I mentioned already, real life comes first. BUT, there is a responsibility when you JUMP IN. When you jump in to the already stronger team, you are simply a silly player for me, who ruins the game for EVERYONE. You ruin it for the stronger team, because the game becomes boringly easy, and you ruin it for the weaker team because you make it terribly frustrating. EVERONE loses. People who LOVE the game like me, suck it up and carry on, and complain in here for a change, so I am not worried about us. However, most importantly, the NEW PLAYERS on the weaker team, which in most cases are in Blues, they get frustrated, disappointed, they disconnect and they NEVER COME BACK to OUR SERVERS mate!

Every player HAS the power to BALANCE the game when he jumps in. He only needs to join the weaker team! It is VERY SIMPLE! So when you do not do that, you are just silly, because you cannot understand how frustrating it is for the new players getting "ruined" and "base raped" for hours. Or you understand what you are doing, but you still do it, because you do not give a f*** of how damaging this is for OUR servers, since the numbers are terribly down! My worst fear is the latter, which would be utterly disappointing.

There is no 3rd option. And the reason for this thread is to bring this ignorance or arrogance of these players to the Admins' attention, so hopefully the Admins penalise this disruptive gaming attitude and set an example for a greater future of our servers.

And no mate I do not like winning all the time. If I win all the time with Blues, then yes, I will start playing with Reds. Because I like the challenge mate. That is why I always play with Blues. Because BLUES is THE challenge. The silly players I mention above, do NOT like challenge, otherwise they would not join the stronger team, they would choose the weaker. And if that would happen, this thread would not exist. And the players numbers in the servers would not be that low at all.

Elvis_FIN wrote:If you want a balanced game, then why you are even stopping guys to switch team?
https://i.imgur.com/LdF1AvT.jpg


Mate because I feel for these players who are unfairly requested to switch teams. I recognise responsibility of each player for balancing the game, when they JOIN IN, but I do not recognise responsibility of players to switch, and ruin their own game. I know I do not like it, so I believe they do not like it either, that is why I encourage them to ignore this request from the opposing team. Of course there are guys like you who enjoy switching, in which case I am sure these players, ignore me and they just switch! I see nothing wrong with my attitude on that point. Correct me if I am wrong please.

Elvis_FIN wrote:Or you can even lie ("bot if afk") to get players on your side even teams were 4 vs 3 for you at the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46CJO4jYKIQ


I deny this accusation Elvis. I did not lie mate. I remember the game quite well. And if you watch the full replay of that game up until that point, 2 of my teammates had done nothing, and Battlebot was AFK. Even if the game is 4 Blues vs 3 Reds, but 3 Blues do nothing then I fairly asked Tiger to join my team.

Elvis_FIN wrote:Have you ever thought that because of you, maybe some players choose opposite team?


I have thought about it and I know a lot of players join opposite team because of me. I like that and I find no fault in this case. Does that give them right to unbalance the game, make new players leave, and our servers get empty? Of course not!

Elvis_FIN wrote:Many times when playing on same team with you, it feels like it is your game and your team. But it is not your team, you are not the commander. If people do not do what you say/like, that does not mean they are doing wrong. They might be doing right, you might be wrong.


I am sorry you feel that way but that is not my intention Elvis. So maybe it is not what I say, but unfortunately is how you perceive it. In that case mate there is nothing I cannot do. But I recognise that my voice can be annoying. That is why if you have realised for a week now, and from now on, I am not talking during the game anymore, I just type.

I recognise I am not Blues's, or yours or anyone's commander mate. What I do however is making suggestions. I do not impose to anyone what to do. When we have captured a town, I find it clever, to make a suggestion of what town to capture next.

My hope is to gather as many teammates on the same town so we maximise our chances to capture that town. I enjoy my game a lot more, when I see more of my teammates around me. I do not like going to towns on my own. I find nothing wrong of what I do mate. 90% of my typing chat now, is suggestions on where to attack next, or, "defend please" or "spawn to A town so I can taxi you to B town please". Nevertheless I find your point here utterly irrelevant to the main issue of this thread which is silly players unbalancing the game by joining in the stronger team.

Elvis_FIN wrote:By my understanding it is not against any EUTW rules to choose a team you want to play.


I respectfully disagree Elvis. When deliberately a player unbalances the game, for me it is a disruptive gaming and it should be punished!

Elvis_FIN wrote:But your text above is quite close (if not even over the line) against EUTW rules 'INSULTING' and 'HARASSING OR GRIFFING' rules. Why you attack so hardly against those guys? I think it is not doing any good. I think it is doing bad for EUTW. Relax, have fun!


I profoundly disagree Elvis mate. You have terribly misunderstood me.

I have no intention to insult, or do bad to EUTW. Allow me to remind you the following so you can appreciate, respectfully, how wrong you are mate. Please check the screenshots below:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Out of the 40,000 names/players that have visited server 2, I have played the most hours (2339). EUTW used to have 4 servers, so if I multiply my hours in server 2 x 3 servers, I must have spent an approximate total of 7000 hours in EUTW. I have also donated a substantial amount of money to EUTW, especially in time of need. Are you telling me, that I really want to do BAD to EUTW mate? You are a lot smarter than that. I am sure you do NOT believe that at all.

To blow my own trumpet even further, I believe there is nobody in this community, including the Admins, that can love this server more than I do. I see most of my friends in steam, that I have met within EUTW, play daily other games or Arma 3 in other servers including Admins. Not me mate! I play only one game, and only in the EUTW servers.

Taking it a bit further, I would like you to bear in mind that I am a 45 year old married family man, having my own company with a very healthy annual income, 3 times the EU average per person!I have the financial freedom to do whatever I like mate, whenever I like with my spare time. And I choose to be here on average 30 hours per week for the past 4.5 years (7000 hours / 52 weeks / 4.5 years).

We cannot possibly know, the financial freedom and choice of the rest of 40,000 visitors of EUTW. But we can safely assume that I have far more choices than they do. So the fact that I still choose to be here 30 hours on average per week, I hope it can make you appreciate how much more I love this game compared to the rest of humanity!

Therefore I hope you, and the rest of the community who might have terribly misunderstood my intentions, to reconsider please!

Another terribly common misunderstanding, is that I hate Leroy and Darth. Allow me to explain myself on this one as well.

After my wife, with whom I spend 24 hours per day with her, the best friend I have ever had, was a guy at high school. My mum used to tell me off because on average I was hanging out with him 15 hours per week, instead of doing my homework. He was my best friend because in total I must have spent, 15 hours x 52 weeks x 6 years = 4680 hours with him!

Now, according to my Gametracker screenshot above, after my 7,000 hours in EUTW, there is Leroy, slightly behind me, with approximately 6800 hours. And Leroy is playing against me most of the times.

I might complain about his silly attitude on balancing, I might hate his lame mines outside my base, I might have a ding-dong with him on a weekly basis. But I am still here playing 30 hours per week, so is he playing 28 per week. And I still bloody love my time in EUTW. So Elvis, and whoever thinks I hate Leroy, try and appreciate you plonkers:

Leroy is the best friend I have ever had!

Nobody in my lifetime has entertained me, more than Leroy with his 6800 hours in EUTW, playing against me.

So is Deeelite with his 5500 with whom I disagree 100% on all tactics in Arma 3. That is why he plays against me most of the time. Same with Darth (4000 hours)!

So Elvis be certain that I am having great fun, even typing these words. I am not relaxed though because I do not have fun when I am relaxed. I enjoy being uptight.

As far as "insulting" is concerned mate, I believe I am stating the truth. And I am expecting someone to tell me where I am doing wrong, or prove my evidence as wrong. Otherwise, my truth, if it insults, it is not my problem mate, it is the problem of the person who gets insulted, and rightfully so!

Elvis_FIN wrote:I suggest everyone stop spamming this balance chat on global


I do not agree mate. Most of global exchanges are very constructive, ie, reporting disruptive players, and kick/banning them together.

Elvis_FIN wrote:
|DJ| JOHN wrote: "I hope my attitude is followed as an example. I find it the most fair, clever and fun attitude. I am always open to constructive criticism, so I can improve my game/fun"

Sorry John. To be honest, I can't agree. Just a few examples below.


Elvis, these references of yours disappointed me.

When I said "my attitude should be followed", I meant my attitude towards balancing our games.

Instead you went through all that trouble to find specific words I said sometime ago to someone I cannot remember for something I cannot remember either. Because no one can see the context of my words. For your own reasons, you show what I said to him/them, but you hid what was said to me first.

They are also utterly irrelevant to the thread. I have already covered this above. Players should not ruin the game, by unbalancing it, because they do not like me, or because we exchanged words.

All in all your references are terribly prejudicial, for which I will not dignify them with any further analysis.

Elvis_FIN wrote:And by the way, it is not "our servers", it is "EUTW servers"


Elvis again quite irrelevant and disappointing comment mate. In response, when I pay my money and my time at the gym mate, I call it my gym. When I buy shares of a company or I work 40 hours per week at a company, I call it my company, because I feel part of that company. I might not be the only employee or the sole owner of that company but I perceive it as my company because I care for that company and I do my best for that company. So equally matey, when I spend 30 hours per week in EUTW for the past 4.5 years, and I donate my money, allow me please to call it my (also) EUTW. Allow me to take things a bit more personally than you do. That is my way, I love it, and I see nothing wrong about it.

I wonder however why it bothers you…

Please bear in mind: EUTW is |DJ| John (7000 hrs), Leroy (6800hrs), Deelite (5500hrs), Steinar (5500 hrs), Darth (4000hrs) and so on… without all us players x 1000s of our hours and our money, there would not be any EUTW mate, no matter how excellent the game is set by the EUTW Admins.

Elvis_FIN wrote:And it is not "my team", it is "our team". Yea?


I agree with you Elvis. However I know 90% of my time, I play with Blues, that is why I call it "my team" mate. For example I cannot call it "your team" because a lot of times you play with Reds. Blackpixel, or Mudokon, can also call it their team, because they are always on Blues supporting me, against the "Red" silly players mentioned above.

I mean I could not have put it any better than Torpedo did:

"On the other side of John … sometimes the god Mudokon helps …I think without this, the bluefor vs red\green win ratio would be 10% to 90% at best."

Respectfully and sincerely
|DJ| John
:nato:

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Elvis_FIN
Donator
Posts: 1478

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#13 » Thu 02 Jul, 2020 5:55 am

What I saw in your post was you just criticise (to say it nicely) some players, not actually made anything else on this topic. Also writing some other stuff which I very much disagree, so I wrote my reply. And that is why I keep replying.

If we really talk about balancing then you must understand balancing is not only when you join the sever. What you write is just trying to get clean cards for yourself by always playing on blue and joining at the time not unbalancing the game. You tell guys on your side not to switch teams when you have more players and other team's players are leaving, but when on your side player leaves, then you ask player to join on same side with you? Also notice how nicely you were asking. And actually me, BIM and WZ00 joined blue soon after this when balance was even worse. Not because of your nice words, but because we wanted to have good game.
https://i.imgur.com/rrfHsU6.jpg

|DJ| JOHN wrote: And the reason for this thread is to bring this ignorance or arrogance of these players to the Admins' attention, so hopefully the Admins penalise this disruptive gaming attitude and set an example for a greater future of our servers.

Remember that you are not making rules at EUTW. There is no rule at EUTW which says that player cannot freely choose his side. But there are rules that deny harassing for example. What you do and say you are going to continue to do on these players (who do not break any rules), well I see it as breaking harassing and insulting rules.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:
Elvis_FIN wrote:If you want a balanced game, then why you are even stopping guys to switch team?
https://i.imgur.com/LdF1AvT.jpg


Mate because I feel for these players who are unfairly requested to switch teams. I recognise responsibility of each player for balancing the game, when they JOIN IN, but I do not recognise responsibility of players to switch, and ruin their own game. I know I do not like it, so I believe they do not like it either, that is why I encourage them to ignore this request from the opposing team. Of course there are guys like you who enjoy switching, in which case I am sure these players, ignore me and they just switch! I see nothing wrong with my attitude on that point. Correct me if I am wrong please.

You should encourage people to switch team to balance if you actually care about real balancing and good game. To say what you said is totally opposite and looks like you just wanted to win and were afraid if game got balanced and you might lose.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:
Elvis_FIN wrote:Or you can even lie ("bot if afk") to get players on your side even teams were 4 vs 3 for you at the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46CJO4jYKIQ

I deny this accusation Elvis. I did not lie mate. I remember the game quite well. And if you watch the full replay of that game up until that point, 2 of my teammates had done nothing, and Battlebot was AFK. Even if the game is 4 Blues vs 3 Reds, but 3 Blues do nothing then I fairly asked Tiger to join my team.

You can't deny it. Check the replay. Check replay from +60min onwards. Bot was on move more than 2min before your text.
https://sessions.eutw.net/index.php?ses ... 1190903988
Since you seem to care so much of new players at EUTW, why didn't you take them into your group and start teaching them about playing at EUTW? I think they would have appreciated that a lot more than just wroting something like "I have 2 new guys which are practically doing nothing". Pointed to same replay file above.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:
Elvis_FIN wrote:Have you ever thought that because of you, maybe some players choose opposite team?

I have thought about it and I know a lot of players join opposite team because of me. I like that and I find no fault in this case.

If people start choosing their side because they do not want to play with some people, that is a problem for balance. If everyone wants to play with everyone, balancing is much easier. But if there is more and more players who do not want to play with someone, they might stop coming to play at all. I see a fault here.

I do hate unbalanced games. I do hate stacking* and stackers. I just do not have interest to use my time to watch who joined and on which side and start being an ass if he joined to wrong team. Everyone can have their reasons to join a team he chooses. Maybe they have friends there, maybe they like gears or vehicles on that side more. Or maybe they just want easy win. Not my problem. I can be disappointed when someone to choose a wrong team and making already unbalanced game more unbalanced, but what can I do - fight harder. At that time, full defence. No resources to attack. Destroy all incoming vehicles. Some of them will start leaving when losing their precious tank and game is balanced again. I actually often only notice game is unbalanced when capturing flags seems to be too easy to one team.

* Stacking definition as I understand it:
"In multiplayer gaming, Stacking refers to the deliberate unfairness of player/team strength resulting in 2 opposing teams with 'Pro's on one side, and 'noobs' on the other".

|DJ| JOHN wrote: I am not relaxed though because I do not have fun when I am relaxed. I enjoy being uptight.

What?

|DJ| JOHN wrote: As far as "insulting" is concerned mate, I believe I am stating the truth. And I am expecting someone to tell me where I am doing wrong, or prove my evidence as wrong. Otherwise, my truth, if it insults, it is not my problem mate, it is the problem of the person who gets insulted, and rightfully so!

Hmmm... Did you check any of my pics from your chats in previous post? You keep calling people stupid, idiots etc. and you see nothing wrong on that? Or are you saying when you say someone is idiot, it is the truth?

|DJ| JOHN wrote: When I said "my attitude should be followed", I meant my attitude towards balancing our games.

So explain me what is fair balancing, what is clever balancing and what is fun balancing? I thought you were meaning something else.

|DJ| JOHN wrote: Instead you went through all that trouble to find specific words I said sometime ago to someone I cannot remember for something I cannot remember either. Because no one can see the context of my words. For your own reasons, you show what I said to him/them, but you hid what was said to me first.

You went through all your trouble to find that stuff to harass some players in your post, so I guess it should be fine I use my time on this. Actually I was just bit lazy not to post other players chat there too or tell more about backround. But also because that wouldn't change a thing. But for you now I took that trouble. Remember you asked for it.

In this chat pic below your team had more players than ours and you keep spamming this surrrender chat. We fought hard and your team players start disconnecting and then we had more players. Then Queen sent his surrender message to you. And rest is there.
https://i.imgur.com/eKgCdLr.jpg

Here is typical example "push, push, attack, attack" tactic at the first second after fight to buy a car to next flag and your reaction when some of us actually stayed to defend and look for emhq when there was very likely still emhq in area. So if all go to attack = 100% sure to lose that flag. That made us idiots by you. Few pics in one pic, so scroll down to see them all.
https://i.imgur.com/jUJkjlX.jpg

Here Dott. was defending Synergy with you while Outpost was still neutral at that time. Outpost situation went critical, you respawned there to capture it. Dott. stayed to defend Synergy. Also good example of that commanding style I was talking. Or was that just a suggestion?
https://i.imgur.com/q9rfhk8.jpg

I think other previous chat pics does not need more explanation. If you think they need let me know and I will add those too.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:
Elvis_FIN wrote:I suggest everyone stop spamming this balance chat on global

I do not agree mate. Most of global exchanges are very constructive, ie, reporting disruptive players, and kick/banning them together.

Do not agree what? Like I said, stop shit and keep global channel open for good chat. I'm afraid global channel will be disabled if shit won't stop.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:
Elvis_FIN wrote:And by the way, it is not "our servers", it is "EUTW servers"

Elvis again quite irrelevant and disappointing comment mate. In response...

Maybe it is then cultural difference when you say "our servers". For me donation is donation, I'm not buying anything. When playing here I'm on EUTW servers, because I'm not owning them at all. No matter how much time I spend playing on EUTW servers, they will always be EUTW servers for me, not my servers. For me it just sounds strange to say it is mine even it is not mine. OK, nice to learn new stuff from other cultures.

|DJ| JOHN wrote: Blackpixel, or Mudokon, can also call it their team, because they are always on Blues supporting me, against the "Red" silly players mentioned above.

So did Mudokon visited your place already? Because last time you said (see below) something else about him and now he is all good when playing on blue? And did you noticed how you say "supporting me" and not saying "supporting blue/team". Just saying.

|DJ| JOHN wrote:If he is in my team and we win, I do not feel like I have won. If he is on the opposite team I feel terribly frustrated. There is no situation for me that I can enjoy playing the game when Mudokon is on.
Until then, he is a cheater for me.


What I really do not understand why you have to always rise up things like how many hours you have played, what is your age, how much money you have, how much you donated to EUTW etc. ? For me it sounds like you are saying "fuck off, I'm better than you!". Maybe it is cultural difference? Maybe treating everyone as equal here at multicultural EUTW community and not lifting yourself above others is one good thing to do to have better community and better atmosphere for all. Also next time when someone throws a stone on you, act like you did not even noticed that - might work. Maybe he even won't ever throw a rock on you again, because he did not get the fight what he was looking for last time. And remember at EUTW (I suppose) throwing a stone can be a little ban. But throwing a rock can be big ban.

I know all this is gone little bit off from actual topic. My point is that, you should not harass people you do not like and especially when they are not breaking any rules. Do not try to make yourself better that others especially if your own actions cannot be brought to daylight. If there is no technical solution to fix unbalancing then we just have to live with this and stop crying. I also suggest that any kind of toxic behavior should be taken more seriously and bans should be given much more faster/easily. No matter if you are new or veteran, same rules to all. All of us who likes to play here can take a look in a mirror and think how can I do better for EUTW and not looking solution how others should change. You just can't change others.

Janxy
Community Member
Posts: 5

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#14 » Fri 03 Jul, 2020 2:38 pm

|DJ| JOHN wrote:Elvis, you misunderstood me mate. I totally believe in stacking. If Leroy, Darth, Bhudda and the rest like to play always on Reds I support that. I want people to have fun the same way I have fun only with Blues. I proved with my earlier post that you can stack, like I do on Blues and never unbalance the game. But you can stack like Leroy and Darth and unbalance the game like I illustrated with tangible evidence.


Ah no, you misunderstand. Buddha, Furry, myself etc just won't play on the same side as you, because we're sick of your in-game bitching over both VOIP and text, and now you bitch about us here. We just thought we'd give you a taste of your own medicine last week.
I can't speak for anyone else in the team I play in (from one of the oldest PC gaming communities in the UK), but it's getting to the point where I wonder whether it's worth bothering to play here anymore. I play this for a bit of R&R, not the drama.
We've been playing here on and off for years, and we enjoy it. The community for the most part is great, but your current behavior is turning it into an unpleasant place to be.

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|DJ| JOHN
Donator
Posts: 87

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#15 » Sat 04 Jul, 2020 10:44 am

Hi Elvis, & Janxy

I will not comment on any of your comments above as I find them 99% irrelvant to the thread.

Respectfully
|DJ| John
:nato:

User avatar
|DJ| JOHN
Donator
Posts: 87

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#16 » Sat 04 Jul, 2020 10:45 am

Actually i am resting my case with the matter. My final words are... LOL!!
:nato:

Janxy
Community Member
Posts: 5

Re: Balancing Teams

Post#17 » Sat 04 Jul, 2020 2:19 pm

Whatever John.

The only way balance can be maintained is if regulars take it upon themselves to swap teams when necessary without being penalised too heavily.
The last round we all played was unbalanced from early on and remained that way to the end.
It turned into a boring match, then most of the regulars left and the server died.

The way I see it...you can be part of the solution, or part of the problem.

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