Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

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marku
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Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#1 » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 3:54 pm

Hello all!

For months now I have been using a VM to play Windows Games. This has a lot of advantages:
-> Guests and Family can play on the same PC in a different Virtual Machine at the same time
-> I can turn off my power hungry Windows VM and still keep all my Services online in different VMs
-> I don't need an extra PC for the abomination that is Windows
-> And I have full remote control which means that I can stream Arma to my laptop and play it on the couch and stuff

BUT: As of today thanks to (as they claim:) "THE ANTI-CHEAT GOLDEN STANDARD" which is BATTLEYE I can't connect to any servers. Like at all.

Theres a lot to say about this inhuman stupidity but most of this rage is summed up on reddit (as expected). So for anyone interested in reading through this mess here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/comments/i1d4yb/battleye_statement_on_vm_bans/
Although this post and tweet from BE is months old it hasn't taken effect in Arma up until now.

This has turned over 100€ of Arma 3 content into my most played single player game, in which I currently accumulated almost 2k hours. So thanks Battleye...

And just to clarify. I'm not one of the guys that tried to cheat in a VM and complains because I can't anymore like this dude right here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/11/558749191128331573/?l=hungarian&ctp=3
Judging by the fact that I have over 350 hours of play time on EUTW alone and not quite a 1.0 K/D ratio together wit a ~0.92 W/L ratio. Its safe to say that I'm either not a cheater or a bad one at that.

But hey 2.0 update is here and I can play the new firing drill. YAY!!!!! :banghead:

So the only reason I actually make this post instead of just crying in a corner by myself is the small hope that I get pity from an admin and that there might be anything they can do. So in case an admin is reading this: Is there a way to circumvent the "You were kicked off the game. (BattlEye: Disallowed Program [Virtual Machine])" message without disabling AC completely? I've been playing other games (including highly competitive games) in this very VM and it's not like all of a sudden there is a new security flaw.

One last thing to add (Watch out my own personal opinion ahead):
As said in the linked reddit post. BEs point in this is completely meaningless and stupid. It's most likely just a bad excuse, because they don't want to bother implementing actual security instead of tons of filters. It's no secret that BE protection is circumventable without getting banned and that there is a considerable amount of false positives. The whole Idea is just to ban enough people and don't give them a chance to appeal hoping that cheaters get scared. Catching actual cheaters is basically just a side effect and nothing stops a cheater from getting a new copy of the game and using newer cheats. And although using a VM helps some cheaters it comes with other drawbacks and isn't actually useful for cheating itself since most cheats are made to run on stock windows anyways. As you might be able to tell from this wall of text I'm pretty pissed of that BE is able to pull of this stupidity and give a BS excuse. So if you would excuse me now I have 2 things to do: Play the brand new game changing firing drill and cry alone in a corner...
Last edited by marku on Mon 26 Oct, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#2 » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 4:27 pm

https://feedback.bistudio.com/project/view/1/
If you can pls go there and Post that, i guess thats not intended, i contacted one from BI nontheless and will comeback when i have an answer
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#3 » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 7:24 pm

I'm afraid that is exactly what BE intended:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289027672186720263
But I will post there as well thx

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#4 » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 10:00 pm

In the mean time, do you want to gie that a try?

https://www.protondb.com/app/107410
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#5 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 1:16 am

More proton/lutris testing is definitely on my list of projects, but I don't think it would even help me in this case. Running it in a linux VM will probably still kick me for using a VM and running bare metal on my server will most likely give me an instant perma ban (If using a VM is scary to BE they wont like stuff like IOMMU, VFIO and KVM). So I guess as long as Battleye doesn't buy me a second PC I'm stuck with the Arma SP experience or other games that aren't protected by the glorious "ANTI-CHEAT GOLDEN STANDARD"

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#6 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 1:52 am

Oh wait you have like bare metal Hypervisor, i though you got like Linux running and a Windows VM on it. Hmm maybe try it out with Proton, at least it doesnt have major issues there (besides properly running arma in general, but i guess you could figure that out)
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#7 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 2:26 pm

Yeah I have a big box running a headless version of Ubuntu Server and 2 GPUs in it. Then I can isolate the PCIe lanes and pass PCIe expansion cards or really anything on the PCIe bus through to a VM. So basically im plugging a GPU into a virtual Windows and get close to full performance. This way me and my brother can play games together without him owning a 700+€ PC. Plus all the other stuff mentioned above, mainly that I don't have to use Windows for work or private stuff and can "stream" my PC anywhere. I can access my gaming VM at the uni with 60fps and a ping of ~30ms. BUT that also means that I can't really use the GPUs natively even ignoring AC and that I'm loosing like 5-10% of performance compared to a normal setup. And considering that Arma prefers to run at 15fps loosing performance can cause issues. Overall it's quite janky and works as long as you don't touch anything. Right now I can't actually update the Radeon drivers without getting a bluescreen thanks to a Windows update...

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#8 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 3:28 pm

I thought about a similar setup, but currently i basically use a "recycling" technique, i upgrade my PC every so often and the rest wanders into the pc of my GF and sometimes stuff goes into my homeserver.

I still havent got an answer from the BI guys, so sadly no new news besides trying Arma in a Linux VM, maybe that helps.
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TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#9 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 5:09 pm

Dwarden : "nope, would need native linux client or BE supporting e.g. proton/wine"

That was the answer i got, im still trying to clarify if a Linux VM running BE in Proton is working (might actually do due to Proton/Wine beeing sort of Emulation themselves)

Also i asked the question if a setting for server admins would be possible as we already can set a fuck-ton of stuff regarding BE behaviour, so why not a single simple flag. Maybe that will help a bit, i dont know.

Other wise a solution might be to make the Ubuntu server a terminal server (not VMs, but running natively). That would be my only idea if Linux VM doesnt work.

Im not that firm in Linux and Terminalservers, but i guess you can figure it out easier than me.

I will comment when i get areply back from dwarden.
Heads up, we will find some sort of solution to that problem
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TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#10 » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 6:56 pm

So onto Linux VM with Proton running, i got no definetive "No" so i would suggest give it a try, dont use any VM masking techniques as that might get you an actual ban in some cases.
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#11 » Tue 27 Oct, 2020 2:38 am

Well I tried. I'm getting a new error now (which is an IT synonym for progress) but it's 1AM now and no success. It's like you/Dwarden said. As there is no support for BE in proton I would need to run the native Arma 3 linux client. This client however is stuck at version 1.82 and might never receive an update again. So I can only play on 1.82 servers.

The next thing would be to get really deep into this stuff, as apparently some people have gotten it working but AFAIK nothing confirmed on update 2.0 yet. There is loads more to try including experimental builds of proton, protontricks and tinker versions or doing the stuff that proton does manually i.e. wine (which btw isn't emulation, WINE is an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator") . OR wait for future versions of proton and hope.

Another thing could be continuing to use windows and try to avoid VM detection. This shit that BE pulled off isn't the only instance of companies fighting non-Enterprise virtualization, and thus there is a community working on hiding VMs. But as you said yourself in BE context that is equivalent to "trying to avoid Anti-Cheat measures" and could get me a ban with no chance to appeal. Once again it's not like they are implementing actual security, they just want to scare people off. However I am very much scared of receiving an unjustified ban. So this strategy is shelved for now.

I've still got some things to try but well... 1AM. If everything fails I could look into game streaming like Stadia or GeForce Now, but anyways thanks for the effort you have put into this and I will let you know if I make any more progress.

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#12 » Tue 27 Oct, 2020 3:04 am

marku wrote:As there is no support for BE in proton I would need to run the native Arma 3 linux client.


BE has no perfect support for Proton but it works for a lot of people with tinkering around, i have checked out the forums/github a bit and it seems to be a bit of tinkering with Proton to get it working once but then it seems to work (even when you have to restart the game like once or twice to start BE properly. I cant really help you there as i dont have no PC i could fire up on Ubuntu/Linux in General that could run Arma in the slightest (i have a RasPI) so you are a bit on your own there.
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TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#13 » Tue 27 Oct, 2020 3:05 am

marku wrote: i.e. wine (which btw isn't emulation, WINE is an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator")


I always forget that XD
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#14 » Sat 08 May, 2021 6:13 pm

I've been checking in on this topic every once in a while. As far as I can tell nothing has changed. Still getting kicked 15s after joining any server.

Has anything changed on your end @TheMasterofBlubb? Like a new BattlEye option of some kind or exclusion rules or something?

TheMasterofBlubb
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#15 » Sun 09 May, 2021 5:55 pm

Sadly no, BE decided to lock out VMs all together, if you try to use masking (there are some ways to spoof your VM) you might even get banned for that
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marku
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Re: Running Arma 3 in a VM using a type 1 Hypervisor. And getting kicked for it...

Post#16 » Sun 09 May, 2021 6:32 pm

VM detection is always an arms race. Cheaters trying to spoof and AC finding new ways to detect. I'm not going to try any of this. I'm building a manageable solution for a hardware windows right now, so if it works I might be joining a game later today. It's really annoying, but I'm literally a fraction of a percent of the playerbase

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